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Author Topic: POLYMER 80%  (Read 10552 times)

Mosin9130

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 03:05:14 PM »

keep in mind that I will  be milling out  a Polymer lower. not aluminum

so this 1/4 in. 2.4 Amp Trim Router  would not work on a polymer lower?
I also looked at   http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-fixed-base-router-68341.html
but this one the fixed base seem's to big

"Single speed 28,000 RPM" That right there ought to answer your question. Also after you finish the plastic one, you will want to do an aluminum one.

As I mentioned, I work for Modulus arms. Besides having done many of these builds myself, I spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week working with customers who are doing 80% builds themselves. Some more successfully than others.

Talking with builders daily, I know what works and where people went wrong. My job is to turn the latter, into the former. You asked for advise, but it appears that you don't like the answers that you received from any of us who took the time to try to help you. Every one who responded advised getting a variable speed, yet you are still determined on getting a fixed speed router.


7.62x39 I really appreciate all the advice but hey I'm running on a thin dollar I mean really thin and this is something I have been wanting to do for a long time.
I'm still short on many part's where I'd rather invest my hard earned cash.
Where I can invest $117.00 on a router I'd rather invest in a bolt carrier group.
I would love a great red dot sight but I'll have to settle for some iron sight's for now.
I understand better tool's equal's a better job done.
If the cheap router run good for a few job's well I'm ok with that because I didn't spend much on it.
If I could I would rather get a drill press but the drill press is to much for my pocket.
If you knew how much money I make every two week's you would think it's a joke, and I'm not married no children just barely making end's meet after paying my bill's, I don't own a cell phone cause I can't afford it, I use a land line witch is cheaper with internet.
I went to the modulus web site it turn's out they don't ship to PR even though it's on there drop menu, I don't understand why they don't ship to PR they just aluminum part's and screw's,I asked one of there representatives if they would ship there jig but he told me that the soft ware wouldn't permit it, so I told him I will find it else where.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 03:12:10 PM by Mosin9130 »
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7.62X39

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2015, 03:30:00 PM »

I get what you're saying but you were looking at spending $52 for a router that has been proven not to be a good choice. For $47 more you can get what I consider hands down to be the best router for the job.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-5-5-Amp-Corded-Compact-Router-R24012/100337039

Now if you buy your $52 router and ruin your lower with it, now you will need to buy another lower and will still have to shell out another $99 to get the router that you should have bought in the first place. Especially if you choose to do an aluminum one somewhere down the road.

Which is more economical in the long run? If you want to try to do it with a low end router, that's fine, but I highly recommend at least getting one with variable speed.
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Jefe

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2015, 09:26:39 AM »

I'll reiterate that none of the equipment choices matter if you plan to use a jig designed for a mill with a router.

Out of curiosity I tried to mill a Polymer80 lower using their included jig and tool kit using only a drill press as the mill. No vise was used which was the tricky part. I just grabbed the jig/lower with gloves hands and took very shallow passes (set by adjusting the table height for each pass) to minimize the force. It took a long time but it did work. The Polymer80 video shows them using the end mill as a drill to remove a lot of bulk but I don't know how they accomplished that when the end mill does not have full width cutters. Once the plastic of the lower hits the middle of the end mill it stops because there is nothing to cut out the center section. I just used a large drill bit I had for bulk removal.

I think your money would be better spent on a drill press and just skip the aftermarket jig and router entirely. That's if you're just doing a Polymer80 lower. An X-Y cross vise would be nice to go with the drill press but it can be done without (not really recommended as it isn't entirely safe).
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Mosin9130

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2015, 12:52:16 PM »

Ok, jefe looked around you have a strong point, it will just take me a little longer to get everything and get it done.
So I'm going with this  http://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-5-speed-bench-drill-press-60238.html
I will use the forged aluminum lower instead of the polymer, I should find an  L angle shaped beem and I have some large C clamps to hold it in place.
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Jefe

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2015, 10:35:54 AM »

Keep in mind the "drill press only" idea was for the Polymer80 lower/jig/tool kit. If you go with the aluminum lower you will need a jig. And if you machine an aluminum lower on a drill press, which I don't recommend, you will definitely need an X-Y vise.
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helidude350

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2015, 04:21:00 PM »

I tried the drill press mill idea.
Destroyed mill bits, lowers, parts flying all around......
Not cool.
I have used milling machines before. Trying to make due with a drill press just doesn't work.

So far, the ezjig and method has worked best for me.
I haven't used the modulus, but I would expect similar results.
I have used other jigs, and even an ep jig less .

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Jefe

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2015, 06:51:57 PM »

I tried the drill press mill idea.
Destroyed mill bits, lowers, parts flying all around......
Not cool.
I have used milling machines before. Trying to make due with a drill press just doesn't work.

So far, the ezjig and method has worked best for me.
I haven't used the modulus, but I would expect similar results.
I have used other jigs, and even an ep jig less .

Agreed. I have used the Easy Jig (original and universal) as well as the Modulus Arms jig. Both work well and I can't imagine ever straying away from a router-based jig system. The built in depth gauges are huge benefit on top of everything else.
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Mosin9130

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2015, 10:09:40 AM »

Keep in mind the "drill press only" idea was for the Polymer80 lower/jig/tool kit. If you go with the aluminum lower you will need a jig. And if you machine an aluminum lower on a drill press, which I don't recommend, you will definitely need an X-Y vise.


Thank's Jefe, it did cross my mind not to use an XY vice but yea you're right, I thought mabe by clamping down the sides only and slide the lower back an forth in between 2 angle L shape beams but my idea I don't visualize it working very well, so I'll ad an XY vice to my list, I thought mabe this one ? http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-rugged-cast-iron-drill-press-milling-vise-69159.html#pr-header-back-to-top-link

this one should do the trick.
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Jefe

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2015, 07:05:04 AM »

Thank's Jefe, it did cross my mind not to use an XY vice but yea you're right, I thought mabe by clamping down the sides only and slide the lower back an forth in between 2 angle L shape beams but my idea I don't visualize it working very well, so I'll ad an XY vice to my list, I thought mabe this one ? http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-rugged-cast-iron-drill-press-milling-vise-69159.html#pr-header-back-to-top-link

this one should do the trick.

Not great reviews on that but really keep in mind that an X-Y vise takes up a lot of vertical space. With a smaller drill press you won't be able to fit the vise on it with enough clearance to then do the work. It might not even fit the drill press table (too wide).
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7.62X39

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2015, 09:16:28 AM »

Also, inexpensive X-Y vices have very course threaded lead screws and a ton of backlash. Neither of which is good when trying to do accurate machining.
Couple that with the poor spindle/quill/chuck control of lateral movement and you've really got your work cut out for you when trying to make a decent finished piece. The drill press will be nice to have for the drilling portion, but I would beg, borrow or steal a router for the rest of the job.
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helidude350

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2015, 09:19:36 PM »

 :o

Mosin, I feel you are not heeding advice here......

seems that you may be posting here by proxy when you lose your fingers.

sliding the jig back and forth by hand is a BAD idea.

unless you spend about $10,000 for a drill press, it is unlikely that you will have one that will "mill" the pocket.

Some cheap tools will be fine for some jobs.

use the drill press for drilling. even a cheap one should work.

A mill would be ideal for the pocket, but most of us ( even machinists) wont have access to one.

the router method or a dremel type tool is a proven substitute.

I have years of experience doing things right, plenty of experience with my own mistakes and learning from others mistakes.

Its your choice to spend your money how you want, and destroy your tools and toys.

Please keep your fingers.
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helidude350

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2015, 09:23:13 PM »

I'm not trying to be a total a$$.
Some things lose the personal touch behind a keyboard.
It would be much easier to speak in person, and to put examples in your hand.
But we don't have that here.

just thinking of your safety, and others who may read this.
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Jefe

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2015, 04:28:12 PM »

Yep, you can use a drill press as a mill if you're doing polymer but I wouldn't consider it for doing aluminum. I think a router is easier than using a regular mill but if someone has a CNC machine they win.
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helidude350

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2015, 07:07:59 PM »

So I just stepped out of harbor freight ....

The drill press would probably work. You may be handi-capped drilling the 3/8" pocket holes. You may have to make 2 drill passes on each hole.
Now this depends on how the combination of your drill press, jig, drill bit and clamping method.

My drill press is about the size of the next bigger model ( ryobi). With the Ez jig, I have to set the height and travel depth, the swing the table aside, insert the bit into the jig about 1/2 an inch, swing the table back under it, and then secure everything .
I start the drill in the Ez jig but not touching the lower.

Drill travel is the issue there. A larger press than mine would be better, but smaller can work too.

The large router. Well it's a large router. if you don't have a jig like the Ez jig or modulus, and the buffer tower sticks above the guide template, that could be interesting making that work.
How true it turns or long it lasts, dunno.

The trim router. I don't know how true it turns. You may be making 3/8" cuts with a 1/4" mill.
It "might" work if.........
There is a lot of plastic in its construction. Not usually good with cheap power tools when they get hot.   ( My dewalt gets very hot doing this)The demo at the store had already lost its base.

If you attempt one of these, use it in short intervals. One or two depths with polymer lower, only half the pocket with aluminum to allow it to cool.
Check the clamping adjustment do hicky often. Mark the depth on the router so you can see if its creeping. Watch for cracks on the base.

If you just use the trim router start to finish without checking it and cooling down I would only expect failure. Keep in mind your fingers will be on the base near the milling bit when things go bad, not near the off switch. You may end up with a wild spinning motor in your face or lap.

I have been pleased with my dewalt.
I recently spoke with a retired but still working carpenter/cabinet / furniture maker that uses the Rigid trim router. ( not building lowers) He said of all the routers he has used over the years, that was his favorite. No problems.
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Mosin9130

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Re: POLYMER 80%
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2015, 11:21:24 AM »

Thank's helidude, I sent for my upper this past weekend waiting for that to come in then after that when I get more fund's I'll get the bolt carrier group, and charging handle.
the drill press and vice will be the last thing's I will be getting.
BTW do you fly RC heli's? I have a few my self a logo 600 and a kasama 90 and some large planes.
Also I have a pardner pump shotgun 12 ga synthetic stock I'm looking for some swivel studs for it, on the butt stock it has a 7/8" machined screw nut in the stock any recommendations?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 11:25:25 AM by Mosin9130 »
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